They Know Better
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Who hold the truth in unrighteousness cannot be found written that way in any bible published after 1885 when the onslaught of Bible perversions began to infiltrate the churches. The translators of the “new age bibles” knew both barrels of this verse were aimed at them and chose to push the gun away by altering the verse. Check this out.
RSV says “who by their wickedness suppress the truth”, the NASV says “suppress the truth”, the NKJ says “suppress the truth and the list goes on with various ways to get rid of that word “hold” because when you use the word “hold” the verse points to those who hold the truth (AV1611) in unrighteousness. Understand this!, a man can suppress the truth in many ways but the only way a man can hold the truth in unrighteousness is to discredit or counterfeit the words of God and that is just what the modern translators and those who read them assist them in doing. Let no man deceive you with vain words…Be ye therefore not partakers with them. Eph. 5:6,7
For God hath shewed it unto themand they know better! The problem is FINAL AUTHORITY and men do not want to submit to God’s FINAL AUTHORITY the AV1611 and go about to establish their own authority in “the bible of the month club”.
Sounds like your trying yo cause strife….but to awnswer your question nope
Amen. Me thinks he is in all things, too superstitious.!? He is in good place here perhaps we can show him the words of the Lord and put him on right paths.
I was asking amigodana..he keeps giving scripture i know in my head what the scripture means but not in his mind
Heb 4:12 “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Rom 11:33-36 “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.”
AMEN !
Prov 10:19 “In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.”
1John 5:6-9 “This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.”
Jer 16:10-12 Ҧ And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?
11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;
12 And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:”
Prov 1:7 “¶ The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”
Are you asking me or someone else?
Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
By the way, did you notice that even Paul says that he serves the “gospel” of Gods Son, the testimony – not the flesh.
Humm?????? What say ye??????
1Pet 3:21 “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
But hey, if you want to worship the filth of the flesh, that’s your choice.
Myself I have no confidence in the flesh;
Phil 3:3 “For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.”
I copied and pasted exactly what you typed. Are you going to lie on the very same page I copied it from? You show me where you said or meant something different, that burden is on you. May God judge between us.
And as far as making me a lesson, well;
Rom 8:31 “What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?”
2Kgs 6:16 “And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.”
Come on with it, But you have to publish my comments just as I make them, without changing or deleting anything like you have done so many times before. Again, may God judge between us.
Also, we went through this question on another page, concerning WHO Jesus is, Ray. You were the one who did not have the answer. I see that you have conveniently forgotten that fact. May God Judge between us on that matter as well !
John 1:1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
1Tim 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1Cor 15:14 “And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.”
Who do you think told John in this verse not to worship him? Remember now, this is written by John who had walked with Jesus. He knew Who Jesus was “in the flesh”. I just cant see John falling down and worshiping just anybody after all that he had already gone through.
Rev 19:10 “And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
We are told to worship God: the testimony of Jesus (the Word);
Its the Word (scripture) that is making you upset isn’t it Ray? That’s why you have to call on other men to gang up on me, like a bully. Study the Word for yourself and show me where you can disagree from.
God calls on each man to answer for himself, its your turn to answer for your belief. If you cant stand on your own two feet then its you that needs to read and study the bible for your self.
Stop relying on other men for your saving grace.
Trust JESUS (the Word)!
And anyways Gods character is so enormous that with our limited minds cannot comprehend all that he is…everyone that reads the Holy Bible(av1611kjv) knows the function’s of the three
You know what i say….romans11:34….For who has known the mind of the Lord?or who hath been his counseller
Ok…in your own words explain the three all your doing is giving scripture we know scripture…we can read the scripture all day long ifbi dont know how you understand the scripture i dont know your understanding of it…explain the three is one in your own words
And final authority means the last not the first we need to understand that to
He lives in us if one has truly been saved….i mean truly saved not just repeating a prayer then going out and living in the world desiring wordly things a person will never understand if they have truly never accepted Christ as there Saviour
1john5:1-12kjv explains that for ya…sounds like to me you need us to explain it for ya if you need help understanding amigodana just ask we will be glad to help ya….PRAISE THE LORD!!!
I said what ? ? ? . Read it again. You are getting paper and ink mixed up with the God of the Bible. Go ahead open your can of worms so Dan and I might get you straight doctrinally and Biblically. You are a great object lesson. Dan Poole he is all yours. lol
You don’t know who God is ? He is the God of the Bible: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. The Son is Jesus Christ as manifest in the flesh.
Now back to Romans and the connection:
Paul says,
Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
If God is his witness and he serves the gospel of his Son, we must know, WHO are they?
Are you having a little STRIFE down with heresy? LOL!!
Where is your presentation of scriptures if you like to discuss the bible?
Now, what I am presenting has everything to do with understanding the Word (doctrine) that Ray is presenting and its biblical, here see for yourself;
First;
John 8:19 “Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.”
If we don’t agree on WHO the son (Word) is, then we can not agree on WHO the Father (Word) is?
John 14:9 “Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
John 14:10 “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
John 14:11 “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.”
You see, Ray says from his own mouth that Jesus was the same as the apostles;
“The translators nor Jesus, nor Paul, nor Peter and etc did not have ORIGINALS , ONLY COPIES OF SUCH, PERFECTLY PRESERVED, LIKE THE AV1611.”
Now either they are “pure and preserved / perfect – the originals” or there are mistakes. It cannot be any other way.!
And he has also suggested that God died and is not with us today, the originals were God not the AV1611;
“The AV1611 not the originals when penned are God.”
Now I believe that the Word is perfect, that Jesus (the Word / God) died and rose from the grave and He is with us today! Jesus, God and the Holy ghost are One!
1 Corinthians 15:14 “And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.”
This is why I believe that me and he do not come to an agreement on this idea of Paul being our apostle ( the Dispensations) (Yes Ray, I know the scripture that you will try to answer that with, OK.). And so, through his study of Romans, this is the base of what he is presenting, the dispensations.
But I believe that in His Word (Jesus) Grace has always been the same.
Hebrews 13:7 “Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.”
Hebrews 13:8 “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
Hebrews 13:9 “Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.”
Now I could go into a whole can of worms here but I wont for lack of space and after all this is Ray’s Blog.
Yes Ray I try to give some resemblance of respect!
Man amigodana gives me a headache…..
Thats the first time ive ever heard the bible id God…
Another thing ive found out if you go east of Isreal the languages read from right to left if u go west of Isreal the languages read left to right seems to me everything points back to Isreal….I wonder if God planned that at the tower of babel…hmmm?
And about the whole patting each other on the back thing thats what were called to do is to love each other build each other up not sit around and look and look for stuff to argue about i like bro ray and and appreciate whate he does if we had more passionate christians like him there would be alot more people coming to Christ…My friendly advice to you would be use some of that knowledge and energy you have to spread the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ..or atleast stick to the topic of the post….if not I love ya anyways…….PRAISE THE LORD!!!!
I love talking about the Word of God…PRAISE THE LORD!!!!..l love this website to….every good follower of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christshould know the Word of God and understand it if you truly love the Lord he will show u the right thing..
Thank the Lord for his Grace his Love and being the Awsome God he is and for giving us the (av1611kjv)…PRAISE GOD!!!
Lets get off the grade school stuff …the stuff tour talking about is common knowledge..not to mention it dont even pertain to the post…lets talk about the whole perspective of things…if you read the book of Enoch which is referd to in the bible and if it was added to the bible would be the the oldest book he talks about jesus and it says (The Lord of Sheep shall be salvation for all)…God is so big the bible just scratches surface…..he is the Alpha and the Omega the Beginning and the End…..
Genesis8:7..and he sent forth a raven which went to and fro until the waters were dried up from off the earth
Job1:7…And the Lord said unto satan whence comest thou?then satan answerd the Lord and said.From going to and fro in the earth and from walking up and down it.
Since u like to study amigodana study theses two things i just posted get a bite off this stuff keep that little brain of yours going a few days
Read the meanings of these names in a sentence
Adam…man
Seth…..appointed
Enosh….mortal
Kenan….sorrow
Mahalalel…..the blessed God
Jared….shall come down
Enoch…..teaching
Methuselah…..his death shall bring
Lamech…..the despairing
Noah…..Rest comfort
Well, down with heresy;
I don’t know whether Ray will post this or not, a lot of times he does not. Why not, I can only imagine. Sometimes he does just to show me up, and sometimes he doesn’t, for whatever reason. He is unfair and not very righteous in letting anybody have an honest discussion about the bible.
Anyway, I will try;
The very context of the scriptures you present contradicts this site; Just look at his mission statement and compare it to the verses following the one you quoted.
Galatians 5:22 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,”
Galatians 5:23 “Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”
Galatians 5:24 “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
Galatians 5:25 “If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
Galatians 5:26 “Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.”
Does he not believe in provoking people on his blog?
Myself, I believe scripture;
2 Timothy 4:1 “I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;”
2 Timothy 4:2 “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.”
2 Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”
2 Timothy 4:4 “And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
2 Timothy 4:5 “But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.”
I am preaching the Word, making FULL PROOF of this ministry and if it does not tickle someones ears; Oh Well!
Joshua 24:14 “¶ Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.”
Joshua 24:15 “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
Ray are you going let us have a discussion or are you going to manipulate it again. to change the outcome, or the appearance of such?
And we all know what is says about people who doesnt bear the fruits of the Spirit
I think amigodana needs a good christian…hug…im noticing a strong hint of strife…and we all know thats not fruit of the Spirit..we all know strife is works of the flesh Galatians5:20…..
You really should take that week. Selah.
Ray you can be such a condescending person sometimes. I do study the Word / Words of God which should be obvious SINCE I AM THE ONLY ONE PRESENTING THEM HERE.
Now, You said;
“Back at you, study to show yourself approved. John 1:1 In the beginning was the “W”ord not the “words”. Selah that for about a week and get back to me. Bro. Ray
Well that does not agree with scripture again. See here where it says words, and its in the beginning;
Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Or, this one
Exodus 34:27 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
And it did not take me a week either. That we have the Word / words.
You are chasing your tail here. Unless you have a point to make according to scriptures. And I have asked you to show me.
Now back to the question I tried asking which you didn’t post;
Is this scripture teaching us to worship God – the testimony of Jesus? The Only begotten Son (the Word). I cut it shorter for you this time. And try to get straight to the point.
Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
You know Ray, you have an opportunity to share in the Word of God, to correct the wrongs according to scripture, or learn together according to scripture. But this is all you do? That is what is so amazing about you, that’s why I call you a hypocrite. These are honest questions looking for honest talk. Now I may disagree and you may disagree, but do you think that calling anybody names and quite frankly acting childish towards people is doing anything?
Back at you, study to show yourself approved. John 1:1 In the beginning was the “W”ord not the “words”. Selah that for about a week and get back to me. Bro. Ray
Lets also look at what you said here;
First, you put Jesus in the same category as the others as if He was just another great teacher or prophet;
“The translators nor Jesus, nor Paul, nor Peter and etc did not have ORIGINALS , ONLY COPIES OF SUCH, PERFECTLY PRESERVED, LIKE THE AV1611.”
Second, if you believe that they are still pure and preserved then they still are the originals and therefore still God.
“The AV1611 not the originals when penned are God.”
You are kind of contradicting yourself Ray, don’t you think.
Think about this!!!
1 Corinthians 15:14 “And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.”
If Christ = the Word is not risen, then is your preaching in vain?
Then you don’t believe these verses;
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:2 “The same was in the beginning with God.”
John 1:3 “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
John 1:4 “In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
John 1:5 “And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
1 Timothy 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
1 John 5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
This is what it says; study to show thyself approved ray!
Along with many other proofs. But if you don’t believe then I don’t know what to tell you.
WOW! Sounds like you may have smoked some of that Charismatic dope. The AV1611 is not God. It is what God said to man. You must rightly divide it because you are commanded to in the New and Old Testaments. Small case “w” in word is the words that God spoke to man, hence the AV1611 Bible. Large case “W” designates the Word to be Jesus, God with us, God in the flesh. The AV1611 not the originals when penned are God. You need to get off the compound and go to a good Fundamental Bible believing church and get dried out from this Charismatic nonsense. I am seriously concerned for you. Please get some help.
Bro. Ray
Ray try thinking a little deeper here. Its all about perception, whether we think about this in terms of the carnal mind (flesh), or the spiritual mind. Yes, I will not argue that you believe that they are the Words “OF” God. This is what I am trying to get through to you though. I believe that the Word “IS” God. And again, there is a difference!!
Ray, this point that you are trying to make about “The translators nor Jesus, nor Paul, nor Peter and etc did not have ORIGINALS , ONLY COPIES OF SUCH, PERFECTLY PRESERVED, LIKE THE AV1611.” is therefore mute when the Word “IS” God!
It is not a book, it IS God!
In fact, when you say that JESUS (and I hope that was a typo) did not have the originals, only shows me that 1) you still don’t understand 2) you still don’t completely believe the whole truth.
The scriptures tell us Jesus “IS” the Word Of God. And only the scriptures can teach, heal the blind, and make the deaf hear this reality.
My Words are therefore only babble as the scriptures say. Which is why I continuously quote Scripture.
2 Timothy 2:14 “Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.”
2 Timothy 2:15 “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
2 Timothy 2:16 “But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.”
We are too divide the Whole Word of God from mans words (profane and vain babblings). Not to split up Gods Word when we don’t agree with it, don’t understand it, or don’t even like it.
Those verses are not about an excuse to say well that was not for us. There are way to many verses that contradict that very idea. Unless of course, you again say those are not for us.
We are to separate Gods Word (truth) from man’s word (profane and vain babbling).
huh?
You are mistaken, I don’t just believe the AV1611 contains the words of God, I believe they ARE the words of God. The words of God are what he said. The Word (capitalized) is God in the flesh and before he took on a body of flesh. And yes the translators got it right in Rom. 1:18-19 and translated exactly what the copies of the original said. The translators nor Jesus, nor Paul, nor Peter and etc did not have ORIGINALS , ONLY COPIES OF SUCH, PERFECTLY PRESERVED, LIKE THE AV1611.
Let me try it like this; One significant difference in our misunderstanding is based upon where we are coming from. Now we both believe that the Word is pure and preserved.
And if I am not mistaken you see the scriptures as CONTAINING the Words of God. I however believe that the Word is God Himself. Believe me there is a massive difference between the two. As evidenced by our disagreements and misunderstandings.
I believe this is the case because of your statements such as “do I believe that the translators got it right”. That is of little importance if the Word IS God, and not just containing a description of what God said. Because the scriptures teach us that God is Perfect.
I believe that we must come to understand each others frame of reference or point of view on this matter in order to move ahead in any discussions. Because that alone can be very crucial to understanding the scriptures, would you not agree?
And in turn effect how we see the doctrine that you are presenting. So all that I am showing you does in fact relate to your teaching.
Consider this with me.
Of course I cut and paste, its the scriptures, God’s Word. I will not add too or take away.
IF it is so inconsequential to what you are trying to teach then why the need to hide it, run from it, deny God’s Voice (Word). Being that Jesus (from Gen. 1:1 to Rev 22:21) Is the Word of God. You are denying Jesus when you deny God His Word (voice).
Are you O.K.? Are you hiding from something? LOL!!!!!!
Are you OK? Have you even read this blog?
By the way, this makes you a hypocritical heretic. Does it not?
I cant help that you don’t know WHO Jesus is?
That’s just a convenient excuse for you, though.
Denial! Blind leading the blind here.
You deny Jesus!!!!!!!
All you do is cut and paste with no cognitive thought.
Your deleting God’s Word, Did you not criticize others for that? It’s not me you have to answer too for that, Ray!
You don’t practice what you preach?
All I can do is share His Word, if you don’t like it, Take it up with him.
Why wont you let God’s Word go out to all the world? Is it because you want to be a god? And have people follow your word instead of Gods.
You two have done nothing but pat each other on the back for your own words, rather than posting and discussing God’s Word.
Sounds like a plan!! Looking forward to it.
PRAISE THE LORD!!!
Look me up sometime i live here in parkersburg maybeywe can get together and discuss scripture i love to preach the word
Thats what were hear for brother to encourage each other…and to preach the truth and thats what you do keep up the good work…love ya brother
Dan, I always look forward to reading and answering your comments, even if we were to disagree you would still be an encouragement. Your comments are always appreciated and I count on you to keep me Biblically grounded. Your faith and courage are appreciated by all.
Amen!!…if they want to supress something they need to supress all these sodomite friendly versions of the bible