After 25 Years Mack is still Lying!
After 25 years, Mack Lyon keeps SEARCHING for the Lord’s Way
The above subtitle of this post came directly from a Churches of Christ website titled “The Christian Chronicle” that is sponsored by C of C Pepperdine University. Without realizing the Churches of Christ accidentally spoke some truth. Case in point, Mack Lyon like all members of the Churches of Christ are still SEARCHING for the Lord’s way which is, “FAITH in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary where He shed the precious blood of God for the sins of the whole world, especially of those who BELIEVE.” The Churches of Christ like the Oneness Pentecostals believe the blood of Jesus Christ is only applied to the sins of the unbeliever when he or she is baptized by immersion. Use the search on this website for in-depth teaching on the Oneness Pentecostals and Churches of Christ water heresies.
Mack Lie-on
You’re a jerk who doesn’t know the Bible.
The question to your answer is, Did you read my new post, “Mack Lyon- Drowned?
Check out my new Post, “Mack Lyon- Drowned”
I have answered your questions completely and fully but you do not accept my answers because I do not agree with you.
The above is a quote from Ray’s last post. This is why I call him a liar. I have asked MANY questions that he has not answered. I have asked him to address many quotes that he has refused to do.
But here is the question I have asked and continue to ask and he has refused to answer.
CAN YOU BE SAVED WITHOUT REPENTANCE? Is repentance faith or an act of faith?
As I have said and will continue to say, he will never answer it, he can’t answer it or then he will have to admit it is faith plus obedience and he just can’t bring himself to say it. So he will go right on teaching salvation by faith alone when he can’t even find ONE, NOT ONE scripture that says that.
Here is his answer to the question:
Repentance toward Christ is the repentance talked about in the scriptures concerning being born again, not getting wet again.
That answers nothing, it does not answer whether we are saved without repentance, it doesn’t answer if repentance is faith or an act of faith, it doesn’t even tell the difference between repentance concerning born again and not getting wet again.
There are two types of repentance? Please elucidate. And assuming that there is. Do I have to do the repentance concerning being born again to be saved? Is the repentance concerning being born again faith or an act of faith?
COWARD! LIAR! You have not answered half of my questions you lying HYPOCRIT.
I have asked you to answer ONE, JUST ONE of my many questions and you have refused at every turn to answer it and then have the nerve to say you have answered all of my questions.
Where is my answer to the question “Are we saved before we confess Jesus”? Where is my answer to the question ” is confession faith or an act of faith?”
Where have you addressed that Jesus says faith is a work, John 6:29
WHERE IS MY ANSWER TO THE QUESTION “ARE WE SAVED WITHOUT REPENTANCE”?
.”<<< Right now, today, in this dispensation, in the Church Age, a man is saved by (Acts 15:7-11, Eph.2:8-9, Titus 3:5) Grace through Faith alone.
The above is a quote from Ray.
Here is where he adds to the word. not in one of the passages is faith "alone" mentioned. He adds to the word of God by putting "alone" in there. I believe he also knows that in all of these passages faith is being compared to works of the law, which never have been able and never will be able to save.
A faith that is alone, a faith that does nothing is nothing
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.
Faith is obeying the laws handed down by Christ and not the old testament laws, the new laws that have come into effect through His death, the death of the testator.
The new law is to repent (which was also part of the old law)
Confess your belief in Jesus as your Lord and savior, as your Messiah. ( this is new and this is a command )
To be baptized for the remission of sins ( this is a new law under Christ, not under the law of Moses)
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
The only way that this verse and Ephesians 2 and Titus 3 do not contradict is if they are talking about two different works. One is talking about works of faith under Jesus and one is talking about works of the law. Otherwise they contradict.
Faith leads you to repent and there is no forgiveness before you do
Faith leads you to confess your belief in Jesus before men and there is no forgiveness before you do.
Faith leads you to obey the commands of Christ and be baptized and Paul tells us that is when our old man of sin dies, that is when we are freed, washed, that is when our sins are remitted. Not before.
John 6:29 This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent ( this is a new command not found in the old law, This is a new work to be done under the new law of Christ, this is a WORK that leads to salvation if you use it, if you allow your faith to lead you to obey.)
Yup, there it is, BUP-TIZED. Every time a Water Dog or Mud Puppy sees the word bup-tism in the Bible he associates water when there is not a drop to be found (spiritual baptism not Churches of Christ Bup-tism). I have answered your questions completely and fully but you do not accept my answers because I do not agree with you. Little did I know that when ol Mack LY-ING was nominated for Heretic of the Month that the post would get so much attention from the Churches of Christ world-wide. The Mack Lyon post has went Ezekiel3 Viral, due much to your infantile attempt to defend Church of Christ heresies. THANK YOU JOSEPH LACLAIR! THANK YOU!!!
Stay tuned. You have inspired me to write a post about ol Mack called “MACK LYON-DROWNED? Just think, maybe you have inspired me to make a Jackass of the Month post. Could you send me a recent picture?, we will need a mascot!
Or may Water Dog of the Month. Or, or, or MUD PUPPY OF THE MONTH!!!
STILL- BORN OR BORN- AGAIN?
.
Like I said Ray, you will never answer the question.
Do we need to repent to be forgiven? Is repentance faith or an act of faith?
You certainly are a master at misdirection.
Supernatural birth? Where will I find that Ray? Spiritual rebirth I will buy but supernatural?
Jesus said a lot of things Ray, that did not take effect until his death. The sermon on the mount was preparing them for the new way, preparing them for the kingdom that was to come. You have heard it said that you shall not commit adultery but I say unto you whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery in his heart. Hebrews tells us that the new law, the law of Jesus, if you will, will be written in our hearts. The new law was a stronger law but did not take effect until Jesus death, he was preparing them. John 3:5 was another example of preparing, this was not old law, something new was coming.
But before I get into that, I want to address a comment made in your last post ( not the one you just gave)
You said “baptism is a work of obedience FOLLOWING being born again. (My emphasis on “following”)
Can you find that for me because everything I can find on baptism says it is precedes being born again.
Paul, who I am sure you will agree was addressing the church and he explains very clearly what baptism is.
Romans 6:3-8
Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST
( why, I think that is just what Galatians 3:27 says let’s see “For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST have put on Christ.” Yup, they both say we are baptized into Christ, imagine that)
were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism
(remember, baptism simply means immersion, we are buried with Him by immersion, going under the water as we have been commanded to do is a burial with Christ)
into death:
(we are dying with Christ, a spiritual death, if you prefer, a supernatural death but I prefer spiritual and will stick with that)
that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,
(we are told that we are also raised by the Father in Collosians 2:12 Buried with Him in baptism wherein also ye are risen with Him, through the faith of the operation of God who hath raised Him from the dead.)
Even so we also should walk in newness of life
(Newness of life and baptized into Jesus harmonizes with 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.)
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
( our old man of sin dies with Christ in baptism so that we are freed from sin. The body of sin is destroyed. Paul cannot get any clearer than that. Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord…….arise and be freed from sin. This is being born again, the old man dies a new man arises freed from sin)
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
This is in harmony with 1Peter 3:21, mark 16:16, acts 2:38 and John 3:3-5
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, Verily I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Here in John 3:5&7 are the only places you will find the term born again.
1 Corinthians 12:13 for by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body
Baptism is not a work of man, the Spirit immerses us with Christ and we are risen by the operation of the Father. It is a spiritual rebirth done by God.
What is the body we are all baptized into? If we are baptized into Christ as Romans and 2 Corinthians say then the body we are baptized into is Christ’s body. And what is Christ’s body? According to Ephesians it’s the church.
Ephesians 1:22-23
And he hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fullness of Him that fillets all in all.
In essence we are also baptized into His church and Acts 2 bears that out. Acts 2 is the start of the church.
Peter tells them to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins Acts 2:38
Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly recieved his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:47
And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
The such as should be saved are those who gladly recieved His word and were baptized.
This will be so much easier to accept once you answer the question. Do we need to repent to be forgiven. You know you do but you just won’t say it.
Faith or belief leads you to obey God, there is no forgiveness until you obey His commands to repent, confess and be baptized into the Lord Jesus, to be risen up by God a new man
STILL- BORN OR BORN- AGAIN?
I am honestly concerned for a lot of people, (Street preachers included, some of them are the worst offenders), who believe “Stop sinning and follow Jesus” is the Gospel message for today!
Jesus said (John 3:7) “M…arvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
[Stop sinning and follow Jesus] is self reformation.
[Stop sinning and follow Jesus] is an attempt to perfect the flesh.
*Before the Cross, under the law that was what a man had to do. That is because no New Birth was possible for any man before the death of Jesus Christ.
>>>Heb.9:16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”<<< Right now, today, in this dispensation, in the Church Age, a man is saved by (Acts 15:7-11, Eph.2:8-9, Titus 3:5) Grace through Faith alone. It is peculiar to this age. It is a special time in which God is assembling a (2 Cor.11:2, Eph.5:23-27) Bride for His Son, which is composed of (1 Cor.12:12-27, Gal.3:26-29) the Body of Christ. *The New Birth today is a {SUPERNATURAL} Spiritual Birth (1 Cor.6:17) ” But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit”, that takes one out of the first Adam, and places him into the second Adam,….. 1 Cor.15:22 ” For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” From (Eph.2:1) being “dead in trespasses and sins”, to being (Rom.6:11) “alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” 1 Cor.12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.” Put into the Spiritual Body of Jesus Christ and thus… Eph.1:6 “To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.” ***Now the cold, hard facts are that you can reform the flesh all you want and convince yourself that you have risen to a state of living a sinless life but the fact is no matter what you do, (WITHOUT BEING SUPERNATURALLY BORN AGAIN), you will… John 8:24 “die in your sins”. God will no longer {hold off} (2 Cor.5:19) imputing your sins unto you. Those sins will be charged to you eternally. They will forever be a part of you, in you and on you, with you in the Lake of Fire. If you are one of those I am speaking about, I pray you take a long look at what you believe and pray that God would show you the truth in these matters before it is eternally too late! 2 Cor.5:20 I “beseech you” and “pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God”! 2 Cor.5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” YOU CAN NOT ESTABLISH YOUR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS IN THE CHURCH AGE. YOU MUST HAVE GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS AND GODS RIGHTEOUSNESS IS JESUS CHRIST…Paul knew and stated it very plainly… Phil.3:9 ” And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.”
Well, Ray, once again you did not answer the question.
This was your answer
“Repentance toward Christ is the repentance talked about in the scriptures concerning being born again, not gettin wet again”.
That was your answer. It doesn’t answer whether we need to repent to be saved.
Do we need to repent to be forgiven? Is repentance faith or an act of faith?
I answered your question to the best of my ability, I am not about to speak for the Lord where He has not spoken.
I have also quoted Acts 2:38 in it’s entirety at least once possibly twice. But let me put it in it’s entirety once again to see how it changes things.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit. Sorry, sorry, the King James, which you prefer says Holy Ghost.
Well lets see how this has changed things. Still says to repent for remission of sins, still says to be baptized for remission of sins. Well, yes indeed Ray, you are right, it says “in the name of Jesus”. Well, that changes everything.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (you can take me to task for this but I prefer Holy Spirit over Holy Ghost)
TEACHING THEM TO OBSERVE ALL THINGS I HAVE COMMANDED YOU:
Yup, yup, I see where Peter messed up, he forgot to mention the Father and the Holy Spirit. That changes everything.
I see Jesus himself failed to mention that in Mark 16:16 “he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Yup, yup, that changes everything, what was I thinking
That’s sarcasm Ray.
You expect me to answer yes or no but will not do so yourself.
Still waiting for an answer. Still waiting for a biblical quote ” saved by faith alone”
You say I am a coward and a liar. I will answer, but you will not accept my answer and will not answer my question about the terminally ill person who could not get baptized. Yes I called you a Jackass and a WATER DOG! And, yes ol Mack was a liar and a heretic.
Repentance toward Christ is the repentance talked about in the scriptures concerning being born again, not getting wet again. You silly Church of Christ Water Dogs only quote part of Acts 2:38. the rest of the verse says “in the name of Jesus” and you sill Mud Puppies leave that part out to make it match the last chapter of Mark. Baptism in water is work of obedience following being born again and having the blood of Christ applied to your life. Me thinks you are a bottom feeding Mud Puppy who got so water logged in your theology that you can’t surface long enough to grab the gospel flotation device I am throwing you. Acts 2:38 was in a transitional time and Mark 16 is for those left here during the Great Tribulation. You ol Mud Puppies are aligned wit the Pope and do not believe in the Millenial Reign of Jesus Christ. Both you and the Pope are Kingdom Builders and as looney as a Jehovah Witness or Mormon. Heretics, all of you. Don’t forget Joseph you little Mud Puppy, before you jump off that diving board in to a theologically dry creek, ol Mack will not be able to break your fall. Mack will be wanting to share any drop of water you may have brought with you to Hell. I hope Anonymous realizes that I am trying to keep people like you out of Hell and those you go about to deceive. NOW, what about the person in the hospital. Yes or No??????????????????????????????
ONCE AGAIN HE WILL NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION.
To answer yours, first off it is not “my” list. These are things God demands not Joe LaClair. The bible does not address deathbed conversions. That is up to God and I will not presume to speak for Him.
This is an extremely hypothetical situation. Do you actually know some one who is in this position or have ever met someone in this situation?
I will ask you in return, if a man lives on an island and never saw or heard the bible and does not know Jesus Christ, through no fault of his own, will he be judged?
Let’s say for arguments sake that they both can be saved, how does that negate the word of God for those who can follow or obey?
As an example we are told in Hebrews 10:25 not to forsake the assembling of the saints as is the manner of some. That is a command yet we have thousands of military men who are stationed away from their churches and cannot attend.
That falls under mercy. (Matthew 9:13)
In Luke 14:3-5 Jesus healed a man on a sabbath, the Pharisees took him to task for it. Jesus asked which of you who has a donkey or an ox fall into a pit will not pull him out? Much like you Ray, they wouldn’t answer. So if a man pulls his ox out of a pit does that mean the rest of us are no longer obligated to observe the sabbath. ( I realize we are no longer under the sabbath laws before you go off into another tangent, this is just an example).
So because military men will not be held accountable because they CANNOT attend church worship gatherings, does that mean the rest of us are not obligated to obey the command?
And let’s say that those on deathbeds will be accepted because they physically CANNOT be baptized, does that negate the command for those of us who can?
The COMMAND is to repent and be baptized (acts 2:38)
Mark 16:16 Jesus says “he who believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
Romans 10:9-10 says he who believes in his heart AND confesses with their mouth.
Am I to believe these command no longer apply because of some hypothetical deathbed conversion?
Your making me answer yes or no is unfair and just lets you dodge the question for the umpteenth time.
Can we be saved without repentance?
Is repentance faith or an act of faith?
I would also like to address “anonymous” who said we should be ashamed of ourselves.
Jesus called the Pharasees, a den of vipers, whited sepulcheres. He also said they were of their father the devil who was a murderer and the father of all lies. He was not always as pleasant as you would like us to believe, especially to those who lie and twist His words and mislead others by the thousands.
Ray called Mack Lyon a heretic and a liar and referred to me as a “jackass”‘.
I have simply called him what I believe him to be. He will not answer the question posed, I believe, because he is a coward and to say that baptism has nothing to do with salvation either makes him a liar or it makes, Jesus, Peter, Ananias and Paul all liars.
Until he answers the question, I will continue to call him a coward and a liar.
Joseph: All the answers to your questions are contained in previous posts. Look them up. You sure have your knickers in knot, don’t you? Get a towel, dry off, put your wet knotty knickers in the dryer and use the search engine on your right to find out what I believe concerning your questions.
SITUATION AND QUESTION: A man or woman is terminal in the hospital and believes, repents, and confesses Jesus Christ and does everything in your list to be saved, EXEPT THEY CANNOT PHYSICALLY BE BAPTIZED. Will they have eternal life when they die without leaving the hospital? Answer this and maybe I will address your barrage of situations and questions. Your choices for an answer are Only YES or NO. Answer or Shut UP!
ONCE AGAIN RAY “coward” MCINTIRE REFUSES TO ANSWER ONE SIMPLE QUESTION
ARE WE SAVED WITHOUT REPENTANCE?
Try to stay on topic Ray, were are not discussing eternal security, you brought up the fact that Judas had done many things necessary for salvation and was still lost, like somehow I would be surprised at that. Like somehow I didn’t know that just because your baptized you can still be lost.
You also refused to address the fact that faith is a work according to Jesus (John 6:29)
No, misdirection is your thing not staying on topic. Pinning you down is like trying to catch a greased pig.
Let’s also look at your faulty reasoning again, because I have done this before.
I have asked for just ONE, JUST ONE passage that says we are saved by faith alone. You still have not done so but let’s look at the one you did give me..
Well, my copy function is not working so I’ll have to type it by hand but anybody can look it up, It’s under RAY MCINTIRE says: September 5, 2015…9:18am
Ephesians 2:8-10
for BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through FAITH (not baptism); and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS (aka water baptism), lest any man (Joseph LaClair) should boast. For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP……
First, this does not saved by faith alone Ray. I keep asking for a passage that says faith alone and you keep giving me this one. It doesn’t even say saved by faith, it says saved by grace. But Let’s use your faulty logic on any number of passages.
1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism (not faith) doth also now save us
Acts 3:19
Repent (not believe) ye therefore, and be converted that your sins may be blotted out
Luke 13:3
I tell you, Nay: but except Ye repent (not believe), ye shall all likewise perish.
Do I need to go on? Ephesians 2:8-10 does not mention repentance, am I to believe we do not need to repent because of this one passage? TAKE THE BIBLE AS A WHOLE RAY, stop looking at any one passage as the be all and end all for salvation. ANYTHING, I repeat ANYTHING that has saved by or justified by attached to it is necessary for salvation.
ANSWER THE QUESTION RAY, YOU COWARDLY LIAR.
ARE WE SAVED WITHOUT REPENTANCE?
You will never answer it because then you would have to admit that you have been wrong all this time
We are saved by faith + repentance
And that would open the door for:
We are saved by faith + confession
And that would open the door for:
Faith + obedience which includes baptism
C’mon COWARD, C’mon LIAR, answer the question.
Anonymous, can you have the courage to put a name with your opinions? Till I get a name there will be no comment made about your anonymous comments.
Maybe this will help.
2 Cor. 5:21 – ETERNAL SECURITY by Dwane Karr
Rom.10:3-4 ” For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
My favorite verse; 2 Cor.5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” The first half of the verse [GLORY, THANK YOU JESUS] is His suffering to save us but that is not what this post is about. That was done so that “we might be made the righteousness of God in him”. The fact that we are “made the righteousness of God in him” proves that nobody was “Born Again” before the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Despite the fact that many go ballistic when you say that, it is Bible truth that can not be denied.
That precious “righteousness of God” is the imputed righteousness we are given when we are Born Again. Many deny imputed righteousness as well. The fact is that if you do not have God’s imputed righteousness you are lost and on your way to Hell. The righteousness of God WAS NOT AND COULD NOT be given by God to anyone prior to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for a very simple reason. Jesus Christ had to ESTABLISH THE PERFECT RIGHTEOUS LIFE BY LIVING THE PERFECT RIGHTEOUS LIFE TO BRING IT INTO EXISTENCE!!! It wasn’t available to the O.T. Saint. Note how Paul tells us this very plainly; (Rom.3:21) ” But NOW the righteousness of God without the law IS MANIFESTED, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Those OT Saints had to establish their own righteousness; (Deut.6:25) “And it shall be OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, [if] WE observe to DO all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.” (And offer sacrifices when they sinned, and die in a proper state maintaining their established righteousness to the end of their life, and still receive Grace from God for all men fall short). Even then they had to go to Abraham’s Bosom and not Heaven for they had to wait for the Lamb’s Precious Blood to be shed to provide Clearing of sins, not just forgiveness. They had Remission of sins, but not Redemption.
This explains (Rom.10:3-4) ” For they being ignorant of {God’s righteousness}, and going about to {establish their own righteousness}, have not submitted themselves unto the {righteousness of God}. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” The time when a man had to establish his own righteousness was over when Paul penned these God Breathed words. This is where Israel stumbled. Their PRIDE demanded they have a part (works) in their salvation. That was the way it had been. They would not admit that Jesus Christ had lived a perfect life and fulfilled the Law perfectly. They would not admit that since Christ had done that the standard was now perfection which they could not achieve on their own. The Pride of the Jews would not allow them to admit they could DO NOTHING, not even have a LITTLE PART IN THEIR SALVATION. Total reliance on Jesus Christ was full humility and DEATH TO THEIR PRIDE. So they rejected SALVATION FULL AND FREE, and instead went to Hell in droves.
I wrote this to expose the error of many FB “Christians” who believe works must be a part of their salvation today. Those who hate OSAS (Eternal Security), those who believe Lordship Salvation (practicing discipleship necessary to prove salvation), those who believe you must first turn from sin then Christ will forgive your past sins, then go and sin no more=sinless perfection etc. Those of you who believe one or more of what I have just written are in the same boat as the Jews at the time Paul wrote the book of Romans. Your problem is Pride. Your Pride is going to drag you into Hell unless you will swallow it and realize you are a helpless, hopeless sinner and trust the FINISHED WORK OF JESUS CHRIST ON CALVARY TO SAVE YOU!
The two of you should be ashamed of yourselves. You claim to want the truth but you both just throw insults at each other. When Zacchaeus, the tax collector and hated by all because he made himself rich on the backs of others, came to Jesus, Jesus did not call him a thief but said “the son of man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” Luke 19:1-10. Nor when the Samaritan woman who came into contact with Jesus and he asked her for a drink and she said “being a Jew, why do you ask me for a drink for Jews have no dealings with Samaritans”…he also told her to call her husband and she said “I have no husband” and Jesus said to her,”you have answered well for you have had five husbands and the one you are with now is not your husband”. He didn’t call her a whore but in the end told her to sin no more. Luke 4:1-42. You may believe that baptism is a small thing but do you ever consider the scripture on small matters? In 2 Kings 5:1-16 Namaan was a great man but he was afflicted with leprosy and he went to the prophet Elisha to be healed. Elisha told him through a messenger to go to the river Jordan and wash himself seven times and he would be healed. But Naaman was furious because Elisha had not come to him himself and the river Jordan was considered a dirty river and could he not wash himself in cleaner river of the Israelites? His servants came to him and said “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you,”wash and be clean?” So he went down and dipped himself seven times in the river Jordan, according to the sayings of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. The one and most important scripture concerning baptism was not addressed by either of you. Christian means “Christ like” our savior and son of God was baptized himself and when John the Baptist protested, Jesus said “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness”. I don’t go to church because I follow men or I believe I am perfect, I go because I try to follow my savior and guide to the best of my ability according to his example because I know I am not perfect but I believe he is. We are told it is not in man to direct his own path. That is why we should always look to Christ as our shining example. He was and is perfect and that is why we must go through him to reach our Heavenly Father. Matt. 11: 25-30. Our Father knows his son and our savior knows our father and Jesus makes everyone known to God who has first known him.
Well, once again you have refused to answer if we are saved without repentance or confession.
You did not address Acts 2:38 other than to say it has been misinterpreted, didn’t bother to explain how.
Yes, I agree baptism is no guarantee of salvation any more than is believing. I do not believe in a once saved always saved theory. Yes you can do everything that the Lord commands but if we do not hold to it, we can be lost.
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also you are saved (which being the gospel) IF, IF, IF Ye keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless YE HAVE BELIEVED IN VAIN.
That’s right, it takes commitment, it takes continual obedience to the Lord.
I never said water could save the world. I said obeying the Lord can save any who choose to obey. The Lord chose water, not me. And it is not the water that saves, it is the answer of a good conscience through baptism that saves.
You discount the command to be buried with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We are commanded to be buried with Him through baptism. But it’s not the water that saves.
Read Colossians 2:12 again
Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith (that means belief) OF THE OPERATION OF GOD, who hath raised Him from the dead.
What happens during baptism is an operation of God. You will discount it but other translations say “in the working of God” that’s right God is doing the work of salvation during baptism because you chose to obey Him.
That is why Peter says 1 Peter 3:21 even baptism doth also now save us ( not the putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
You can discount water all you like but Jesus himself said
John 3:5
Except a man be born of WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
Seems to agree with Peter who said to repent and be baptized (born of water) each and every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ and recieve ye the gift of the Holy Spirit (born of the spirit)
You discount water as being important and yet God says 1 John 5:8
There are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood : and these three agree in one.
God seems to think water is important. Important enough that we have been commanded to do it Mark 16:16. And God tells us why. Acts 2:38 for the remittance of sins, Acts 22:16 to wash away our sins, 1 Peter 3:21 to save us, romans 6:3-8 to be buried with Christ, Galatians 3:27 to be baptized INTO Christ.
Anyhow you still refuse to answer if we are saved without repentance. If we are saved without confession.
Why is that Ray? What are you afraid of? Just answer the questions.
And while your at it, address the fact that Jesus calls faith a work (John 6:29) is Jesus lying? If we are not saved by works, how can we be saved by faith since it is a work? Unless of course there are two different types of works. Works of man which cannot save and works of God which must be obeyed to be saved.
But I will be satisfied with your answer to just one question. Can you be saved without repenting?
Don’t be afraid, just answer it.
Joseph, Joseph settle down and quit with the backstroke in the pool of Bible ignorance. Dry off while I address Acts 2:38 for you. Acts 2:38 was in effect during a transitional time between Old Testament Law and the Church age.
World Council of Churches (WCC) →
ACTS 2:38 Come Let Me Show You the Words of the Lord!
Posted on April 26, 2013 by Bro. Ray McIntire
Misinterpreting Acts 2:38 has landed more people in hell, perhaps, than the any other single verse in the Bible. Find yourself a “so-called Christian” heretic and there is a good possibility that he or she has built their heresy while doing the backstroke in Acts 2:38. All the soaking wet theologians, including the Church of Christ cult, the Roman Catholic cult, plus the Oneness Pentecostal cults and others lose their spiritual sense when reading this one verse in Acts chapter two. Pentecostals/charismatics stumble and fall flat on their faces in Acts 2:1-21, and the situation gets much worse when they stagger up to Acts 2:38. All of the soaking wet cults climb as high as they can on the tower of unbelief before jumping off yelling Acts 2:38, and then do a belly smacker into an eternal lake of fire! But Ezekiel3 has good news! We will attempt to drain the baptistery on the Pentecostals, shove the Church of Christ into a dry creek bed, and shut the sprinkler system off on the Roman Catholic Church as we study in the AV1611 Holy Bible.
You can go to hell soaking wet and if you depend on Acts 2:38. Do not and I repeat do not be surprised if you find yourself clothed in filthy rags (although soaking wet) at the White Throne Judgement while screaming in a self-righteous voice, “What about Acts 2:38?”. Well what about it, lets continue, shall we?
PART ONE
I’m going to prove to you with scripture that a person can be baptized and still go to hell just like all Roman Catholics, the Campbellite, and Oneness Pentecostals/Charismatics who depend on the “good work” of baptism to save them. Scripture records the account of a man who healed the sick and cast out devils and was baptized who did not make it to heaven, but instead wound up in the Bottomless Pit. Then it is recorded in scripture that this same man repented himself and wound up in the Bottomless Pit. Don’t forget all this happened in spite of him being baptized. Do you not realize that a man can cast out devils, heal the sick and be baptized and still go to hell? You say I do not believe that could happen under any circumstances. Is that so? Read Matthew 10:1, 27:3, and John 6:71. Amen? Come on once more, this time with feeling. AMEN!
PART TWO
If you read the scripture references in Part One you will notice that Judas did some of the same things that Oneness Pentecostals/Charismatics, Church of Christ, Roman Catholics and others do; including water baptism; all in the name of religion but ended up in the bottomless pit. As the publisher of Ezekiel3 I use a sarcastic yet humorous style of writing to get and keep you as I draw your attention to some devilish false doctrine or heresy that damns men’s souls and contributes to the last day’s Laodicean apostasy. It would do everyone reading this post well to follow Jesus commandment in John 5:39 and search the scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life. Thinking; ye have eternal life; is the problem that all water regenerationists have. The apostle John told us; that these things scriptures were written that we may know we have eternal life and the life was in Jesus Christ; not water baptism. Even a superfluous reading of Hebrews or Romans would point out to any one that our salvation is dependant on the blood of Jesus Christ and not a bapistry filled with water. I leave you with the following question to ponder. If water could remove the sins of the world, why did Jesus Christ shed his blood on the cross of Calvary?
Once again Ray you refuse to answer the question ARE WE SAVED WITHOUT REPENTANCE?
Just answer the question
Jesus says in LUKE 13:3 unless you repent you shall all likewise perish.
Along Comes Ray McIntire and says Jesus is a liar, we are saved by faith only.
Acts 3:19 says to repent that your sins may be blotted out.
Ray McIntire says, not so, it is faith alone not of works.
Well here’s one for you Ray Coward McIntire
John 6:29
Jesus answered them and said unto them, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, THAT YE BELIEVE ON HIM WHOM HE HATH SENT.
What’s that Jesus? Faith is a work, well that can’t be. Ray McIntire says we are not saved by works so obviously you, Jesus are wrong.
That’s right Ray, Jesus says belief IS A WORK, it is something you choose to do. You either choose to believe or you choose not to believe, it is a work according to Jesus. But it’s a work of God not of man. Repentance Ray, is a work of God not of man, confession is a work of God not of man and baptism is a work of God not of man as Colossians 2:12 points out. All of these things are given as commands and must be done in order to have forgiveness of sins.
You say, not so.
Finish Ephesians 2:10 Ray, we are His workmanship created for what, Ray? What were we created for? GOOD WORKS. The only good works are works of God. Works of man are not good as your writing point out. They are full of lies and hypocrisy. Works of man cannot save less any should boast.
Belief is a good work, repentance us a good work, confession is a good work, baptism is a good work
That is why James can say “we are justified by works and not by faith alone.
Only those who refuse to accept what God says will teach “saved by faith alone”
By the way, you keep using Ephesians 2:8-10
It does not say faith only. YOU SAY IT DOES but it does not, it says saved by grace through faith.
Faith led me to obey and repent
Faith led me to obey and confess
Faith led me to obey and be baptized for the remission of sins.
You refuse to address Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21 because YOU ARE A COWARD AND A HYPOCRIT.
You sound like a WATERDOG that hit your head on a rock while jumping in a dry creek. Here’s your verse. Ready, set, READ IT!
For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through FAITH (not baptism); and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS (aka water baptism), lest any man (Jospeph LaClair) should boast. For we are HIS WORKMASHIP… Eph. 2: 8,9,10
Joseph LaClair, you are not only BOASTING, you are strutting sitting down! Hey, if you are not a Campbellite, are you a Pentecostal? And why are you wanting to wind up in Hell with ol Mack LYING anyway?
You, Ray McIntire. Are a coward as well as a liar. You refuse to answer questions put to you because you are afraid to face the truth and you will go on spreading your lies about the gospel.
There is no salvation without repentance, you know it as well as I but will not answer it because then you would have to admit the bible says it’s faith plus repentance that saves.
Peter said to the church age, Peter an apostle of God speaking the words of God, not Alexander Cambell,
GOD SAID THROUGH PETER
Acts 2:38 Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Along you come and say Peter is a liar, you do not need to repent, you do not need to be baptized you just need to believe. YOU say we are saved by faith only not the bible. Ray McIntire says it, listen to him, Peter is a liar
Jesus says
Mark 16:16 he who believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
You say Jesus is lying. Ray McIntire says Jesus is wrong, you do not need to believe and be baptized you just need to believe.
Paul says
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Not so, says Ray McIntire. Paul is a liar, you only need to believe, you are saved by faith only.
Peter just can’t stop lying according to Ray McIntire because we obviously are NOT saved by baptism. Do not listen to Peter says Ray McIntire, he’s an obvious fake and a liar and doesn’t know what he is talking about
1 Peter 3:21 the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I have not once mentioned or quoted Alexander Cambell, I could care less about Alexander Cambell, I have never read on wrd written by Alexander Cambell.
I quote the bible, I accept the bible, I do not try to explain it away as does Ray McIntire because he has no choice, the bible does not agree with his teaching so he has to resort to name calling and belittling.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Wrong James says Ray McIntire a man is not justified by works, he is saved by faith alone, James you stupid Cambellite.
We are told in the scriptures which means we are told by God that he will take vengeance on them that do not OBEY the gospel. Ray McIntire says you do not have to obey, there’s nothing you can do. Obedience is not necessary, just believe
2 Thessalonians 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
What is the gospel we are to obey?
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have recieved, and wherein ye stand;
By which you are saved, if you keep in memory what I have preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain (Ray McIntire says your wrong Paul, we are not saved by the gospel, we are saved by faith alone, don’t tell us we are saved by the gospel)
Here is the important part Ray, pay attention you may not have heard this before
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also recieved, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Did you catch that Ray? The gospel in it’s essence is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. We are to obey the gospel, we are to obey the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.
What is baptism Ray? Have you ever read Romans 6 Ray?
Romans 6:3-8
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized were baptized into His death
Therefore WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection:
Knowing this, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, that HENSEFORTH we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is free from sin
Now if we be dead WITH Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him.
Did you catch that Ray? That is obeying the gospel. In baptism we are dead buried and risen with our Lord and Savior to rise up a new man, the old man is freed from sin. But not according to you, no according to you we are freed from sin as soon as we believe. You must think Paul an idiot. You must think Ananias as big an idiot
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Why not so Ananias, says Ray, baptism is a work we cannot be saved by works.
That is why I asked you Ray, if baptism is a work of man or of God but you refused to answer, mainly because you were too ignorant on the subject as you are on so many others.
Colossians 2:12
Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of THE OPERATION OF GOD, who hath raised Him from the dead.
Did you catch that Ray? Baptism is THE OPERATION OF GOD. you call it a work of man all you want. Paul says it is the work of God.
That is why I asked if Repentance was a work of man or of God. Following any command of God is a work of God not of man. That is why I asked if confession was a work of man or of God but you refused to answer.
Go right on calling me a Cambellite, I will go right on QUOTING SCRIPTURE, QUOTING THE WORD OF GOD!
Give me that quote from God again Ray, you know the one that says we are saved by faith only. Oh, that’s right, you never gave me ONE. You gave me passages that said we are saved by faith and of course we are. I can give just as many that say we are saved by repentance, confession and baptism. There is no one thing that saves us Ray and it is the devils lie to say there is.
We are saved by grace, by faith, by repentance, by confession, by baptism, by the gospel, by hope and above all by the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I pray you take your blinders off and start reading the gospel and not your own faulty works of literature.
Paul told you he was the LAST apostle. He taught Peter about the gospel given him by Jesus Christ for the Church Age and by Church Age I do not mean when the whole foolish notions dreamed up by the Campbellite in the twentieth century. I quit answering because you quit listening, silly Campbellite! Proverbs instructs me at this time to not answer a fool according to his FOLLY lest I be like him. Good day.
P.S. Always remember Mack “LYING” Lyon was and instrument of Satan to take you to Hell with him.
Like any drowning man, you are taking in water for air and starting to gurgle a lot. Your pride will not let you be saved by the FINISHED WORK of Jesus Christ on his Cross. Your problem is, every time baptism is used in the Bible, you think there is a creek nearby, NOT SO! Being baptized into the Body of Christ is not water baptism. I hope that you will see the truth of God’s word and rightly divide it before you become a dead Water Dog like your hero Mack LYING! All the info you need to be born again can be found in the AV1611 Holy Bible and I have plenty of good preaching on this blog to help you understand. Good Day.
Well, let’s see what we have so far. I started out quoting scripture and putting your teaching along side the quotes. Your answer to me was “I am my own authority” when all I did was use QUOTES. You did not address the scriptures given.
My second response I gave more scripture quotes that say baptism saves, you referred me to some book rather than address the scriptures. Up to this point you have not quoted from God’s word once.
I then asked for you to give just one scripture that says we are saved by faith alone. You wrote down 3 passages. I showed that 2 definitely said faith plus something else Roman 10:9 confession plus faith
Ephesians 2:8 grace plus faith and you gave me Acts 16:31 which does say to believe to be saved but does not say belief only.
I asked if we need to repent in order to be saved, you refused to answer.
I asked if we need to confess to be saved, you refused to answer.
I asked if repentance and confession are faith or an act of faith, you refused to answer.
I was told they were the wrong dispensations. I gave a list of bible passages and asked if you would connect them to the right dispensations, you did two or 3 and I answered where you were wrong.
Any question you have asked I have answered and would be glad to answer any others but you refuse to answer most.
Here is your response to my last comment, once again, no scripture.
Like any drowning man, you are taking in water for air and starting to gurgle a lot. Your pride will not let you be saved by the FINISHED WORK of Jesus Christ on his Cross. Your problem is, every time baptism is used in the Bible, you think there is a creek nearby, NOT SO! Being baptized into the Body of Christ is not water baptism. I hope that you will see the truth of God’s word and rightly divide it before you become a dead Water Dog like your hero Mack LYING! All the info you need to be born again can be found in the AV1611 Holy Bible and I have plenty of good preaching on this blog to help you understand. Good Day.
So I will again ask questions that I am sure you will again refuse to answer.
Since you say that being baptized into the Body of Christ is not water baptism ( those are your words above)
1) Then what baptism is it?
2) What baptism is Paul referring to in Ephesians 4:5 there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism?
3) 1st Peter 3:21 is this water baptism? Is Peter lying when he says it saves) does Peter say it saves?
4) Acts 2:38 is this water baptism?
5) Mark 16:16 is this water baptism?
6) Romans 6:3-8 is this water baptism?
7) Colossians 2:12 is this water baptism?
8) Acts 2:41 is this water baptism?
9) can you be saved without repenting?
10) is repenting faith or an act of faith?
11) can you be saved without confessing?
12) is confessing faith or an act of faith?
Again simple questions that you will I am sure still refuse to answer, especially the last 4 because then your whole argument crumbles. Number 3 has 3 questions in one, I hope that is not too much for you to process.
I would ask Ray, that you quit dodging the questions and just answer them. If you cannot answer them then I would ask that you pray for answers as I am praying that you will find them.
Like any drowning man, you are taking in water for air and starting to gurgle a lot. Your pride will not let you be saved by the FINISHED WORK of Jesus Christ on his Cross. Your problem is, every time baptism is used in the Bible, you think there is a creek nearby, NOT SO! Being baptized into the Body of Christ is not water baptism. I hope that you will see the truth of God’s word and rightly divide it before you become a dead Water Dog like your hero Mack LYING! All the info you need to be born again can be found in the AV1611 Holy Bible and I have plenty of good preaching on this blog to help you understand. Good Day.
Number 4) Acts 22:16 Favorite verse of the Campbellites to prove (?) that water will wash away your sins. Anaias’ statement is not one of New Testament doctrine on Salvation in this Church age. It is the declaration of a man who was a “devout man according to the law” See Acts 22:13
I think you mean Acts 22:12 but I don’t understand your point. Paul was sent to him and he was to tell Paul what the Lord said he was to do. He said Paul was to be a witness for Jesus unto all men. And then he said ( paraphrasing) So what are you waiting for? Stand up and be immersed and wash away your sins.
At the very least you have to admit that at this point Paul’s sins had not been forgiven or here is another example of a bible liar. Ananias joins the ranks of Jesus, Peter, and James for lying.
Or he wasn’t lying and Paul’s sins at this point had not been remitted. But that can’t be because our sins are forgiven the moment we believe, the moment we have faith.
Paul saw Jesus, he did as Jesus instructed and went to Damascus and sought out Ananias, he was 3 days without sight Acts 9:9 and he was praying Acts 9:11 and yet Ananias told him that he still was with sin, what are you waiting for? Let’s get your sins washed away. Another great lie.
Ananias connects water baptism with the purification of the flesh. (John 3:24,25 – Heb. 9:9,13,17, 20)
Ananias does not connect water baptism to the above verses, you do. He never even once alludes to any of these things. Water baptism was never part of the old law, he was telling Paul something new, something that he was commanded by God to tell Paul? To wash his sins away and further more, nothing under the old law could wash sins so obviously he is not referring to the old law even though he was “a devout man according to the law.”
The apostle Peter is careful to TELL YOU that New Testament baptism IS NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh. Read it!!! (1Pet. 3:21) What does it say, read it, all of it Joseph.
I have already addressed the above in an earlier comment but will be glad to do it again. Baptism simply means “immerse”. Every time you go swimming you are being “immersed” or baptized. It was a common thing to bathe in the river, every time they bathed, they were “immersed” or baptized.
Peter is simply saying this is not “immersing” to remove the filth of the flesh. This is not taking a bath.
This is an answer of a good conscience toward God. This is your answer to God. And no matter how much you deny it or do not like to admit it Peter says “even now doth baptism (immersion) also SAVE US.
He compares Noah being saved by water to our being saved by water.
I would say to you to read it Ray, read all of it.
Once again dodge my questions, just answer them all, stop doing it piece meal. I don’t agree with your take on Galatians 3:27 and Acts 22:16 but I’ll let them slide for now.
Let’s look at 1 Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the LONGSUFFERING of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls WERE SAVED BY WATER.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth ALSO NOW SAVE US (not the pitting away the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
You know as well as I that all baptism means is immersion, the catholics changed the Greek ” Baptizmo” which means to immerse to baptism to allow sprinkling and pouring of water.
So he is comparing Noah being saved by water which washed all the evil off the face of the earth to our being saved by water which washes away our sin.
It should say “immerse”. Every time you go swimming or take a bath or any time you are “immersed” you are baptized. The Lord is saying this is different. It is not taking a bath, it is not washing away the filth of the flesh, it is answering God in a good conscience. It is obeying God in a good conscience.
Again compare verse 20, they were disobedient. What saves us is being obedient.
It is following Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved.
It is following Peters instructions in Acts 2:38 to repen and be baptized for the remission of sins.
Any how could you please just list for me which dispensations the passages I had asked about are attached to. Once we know for what age they belong then we can discuss. Than you.
Number 4) Acts 22:16 Favorite verse of the Campbellites to prove (?) that water will wash away your sins. Anaias’ statement is not one of New Testament doctrine on Salvation in this Church age. It is the declaration of a man who was a “devout man according to the law” See Acts 22:13 Ananias connects water baptism with the purification of the flesh. (John 3:24,25 – Heb. 9:9,13,17, 20) The apostle Peter is careful to TELL YOU that New Testament baptism IS NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh. Read it!!! (1Pet. 3:21) What does it say, read it, all of it Joseph.
Let us start with number 6) in your list. Verse 27 is a major stumbling block for most denominations (especially Papists and Church of Christ water dogs). It is not a stumbling block to Baptists read the Bible and realize that WATER is not mentioned anywhere in the Book of Galatians. This baptism spoke of in Gal. 3:27 and is the baptism mentioned in 1Cor. 12:13 that puts the believer of Gal. 3:26 into Christ. This is the church age Joseph. More to come, just keep treading water in that dry Church of Christ creek till I throw you a life preserver. More to come.
O.K. Since the bible doesn’t rely on these “dispensations” I’ll have to rely on your expertise so if you do not mind and if you can, I will give you some passages and you can tell what Waht dipensation they are from, church age, millennial age etc.
1) Mark 16:16
2) Acts 2:38
3) Acts 3:19
4) Acts 22:16
5) Peter 3:21
6) Galatians 3:27
7) Romans 6:3-8
8) Romans 10:9-10
9) Collosians 2:11-12
10) 1 John 1:7-9
11) 1 John 5:7-8
12) James 2:24
13) James 1:21
14) John 3:3-7
Wrong dispensation]
Read my page listed at the top in the black area just under the picture of the Bible. Read DISPENSATIONS.
The problem with your bus ministry application is the Lord never said you have to do it to be saved, if he did then we would have to do it. The Lord did say we must repent, he did say we must confess and he did say we must be baptized.
I believe that you do not recieve salvation until you repent. You once again conveniently dodge the question I have posed. Are we saved before repentance? Are we saved before confession? I believe that faith leads you to do what needs to be done in order to recieve the forgiveness of sins.
Peter told the crowd on the day of Pentecost that the Jesus they had crucified had been made lord and Christ. They were pricked in their hearts, they believed, you say they were saved right then and there. They asked Peter what they must do. And according to you he lied to them because he told them to Acts 2:38
Repent and be baptized FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.
But YOU say not so, they were saved the instant they believed. Peter lied to them
Jesus lied to us when he said in Mark 16:16 He who believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
God joins them together, not man
Paul lied to the Roman church when he told the Roman church In Romans 10:9 if you confess AND believe. God joins belief and confession but you say not so, you just have to believe.
Peter lied when he said In 1st Peter 3:21 even one does baptism also save us. What a liar.
No obviously it is faith only found in, where was that again that again? Oh Yeah! James 2:24 you see that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. The bible just seems to be full of liars.
To answer your question, yes, I believe salvation that comes from the blood of Christ is applied once you obey God and not before. That includes repenting, confessing and being baptized and the bible says that very thing.
You know you don’t dare answer my questions because if you answer my questions honestly you would have to say they are works of God, including baptism and you would have no logical stance for your position.
These are works done as the result of faith. A bus ministry is a work resulting from faith, but is not required for salvation. Come clean you ol water dog. You believe that the blood of Christ is applied at water baptism don’t you? Answer that or do not write back. Silence will make us know what you believe even if you won’t admit it publicly.
Ye are saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man (Church of Christ, Oneness Pentecostal) should boast. Look that one up while crawling out of the creek.
I have to assume that you were not able to find even one verse that says we are saved by faith alone? Strange for a book that teaches it not to have it anywhere in it.
I have to further assume you refuse to answer my very simple questions.
Let me post them in a very easy to respond to manner. I’ll number them and all you have to do is say something like: 1 = no.
1) Can you be saved without repentance?
2) Can you be saved without confessing your belief in the Lord Jesus?
3) Is confession faith or an act of faith?
4) Is repentance faith or an act of faith?
5) Was the building of the Ark faith or an act of faith?
6) Was the building of the Ark a work of man or a work of God?
7) The destruction of Jericho, was that faith or an act of faith?
8) The destruction of the walls of Jericho. A work of man or a work of
God?
9) The slaying of Goliath was that faith or an act of faith?
10) The slaying of Goliath, a work of man or a work of God?
11) Repentance, a work of man or a work of God?
12) Confession, a work of man or a work of God?
13) Baptism, is it faith or an act of faith?
14) Baptism, a work of man or a work of God?
Still praying that you will see the truth and praying that you will answer my very easy questions.
You can lead a blind Jackass to the word, but you cannot make him see, think or believe.
Here are the passages that you gave me. I’ll use the King James you are so fond of
Acts 16:31
And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
This verse does not use the word only. I asked for a verse that says we are saved by faith only.
This verse also does not mention repentance. Am I to believe from this verse that I only need to believe and not repent? You will notice that it goes on to say that they spoke the word of the Lord to him ( in other words taught him from the scriptures ) and he baptized the straightway. No waiting.
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
First off again this does not say faith or belief only it says believe AND confess. And you conveniently left out the next part of the verse:
Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION.
what Paul is saying is your heart believes what is right (righteousness) and with your mouth you do that which leads to salvation (obey the Lord) which in this case is confession.
So Paul says your faith and confession work together to bring salvation.
Let me repeat: belief and confession bring about salvation. Paul did not say faith alone. Read Romans 10:9 again……..confess AND believe.
Your last proof text, Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace Are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Again, epic fail this says we are saved by grace not by faith. It says saved by grace THROUGH faith. That at the very least means faith AND grace so the teaching “faith alone” Does not show itself here.
No mention of repentance or confession here. Are they not neccessary?
Am I to honestly believe that I am saved without repentance? Not one passage you gave me even mentioned repentance.
Let me use your reasoning
Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out, so that the times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord.
Your reasoning: “look, repentance alone saves” here is the passage, read it for yourself. Doesn’t mention baptism so therefore baptism doesn’t save, doesn’t mention confession therefore confession does not save, doesn’t mention faith therefore faith does not save.
That sir, is how you rightly divide the scriptures to your own destruction.
Let me ask you and please be honest. Do we need to repent in order to be saved? Is repentance faith or is it an act of faith? Is confession faith or an act of faith?
As far as works if you would like we can get into that later. There are works of man which cannot save and there are works of obedience which must be obeyed in order to be saved. Repentance is a work, it is something you do. Confession is a work, it is something you do. Are they works of men or of God?
Who commanded baptism? Man or God? Is it a work of man or a work of God?
P.S. I did not put my name on the last response, is it possible for that to be rectified. I pray you think long and hard on these discussions.
Ok, you can read English. But, can you RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORDS OF GOD AS YOU ARE COMMANDED?
Any thing you quote from the NEW King James was twisted when you bought this perversion of the Scriptures.
Here is your one verse: Acts 16:31 – Rom. 10:9 – Eph. 2: 8,9
Hope this works for you.
Once again calling them my interpretation, they are QUOTES. IT IS WHAT GOD SAYS. I do not need a book to teach me English, I can understand the written language quite well, thank you. If you would be so kind as to show me which of those quotes I twisted, I would greatly appreciate it.
I wrote them word for word from the NKJ except 1Peter 3:21 which came from the AV or KJ if you please. Word for word how. How is that twisting? How is that lying? And you have yet to use one word or quote from scripture in your defense. Why is that? I pray you look heavily into the things you say and promote.
I will ask again, please give me one, just one verse of scripture that says we are saved by faith alone. Surely you can do that after all the scriptures teach it don’t they?
Dear Joseph LaClair:
Please let me recommend a book that will help you in your interpretation of the Scriptures written by born again AV1611 Bible Believer. You can buy this book on Amazon for less than $10.00 or download it on Kindle for less than $3.00 and it will be well worth the money spent. The title is “Five Heresies Examined” by Peter S. Ruckman. You will find your particular Church of Christ heresies to be eerily similar to the Roman Catholic heresy. Here is and introduction provided by Amazon Books.
By definition, a heresy is an error taught about some fundamental doctrine of the faith. In this work, Dr. Ruckman gives you the history of five major groups and examines the errors they teach about key doctrines of the Christian faith. They are the Church of Christ, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Seventh-day Adventists, the Charismatics, and the Roman Catholics. The false teachings of each sect are compared to the clear teachings of Scripture on baptism and regeneration, the Deity of Jesus Christ, the reality of Hell, the relationship of the Old Testament Law to the New Testament believer, the gifts and work of the Holy Spirit, Maryolatry, Communion, and the Church.
(Print Length: 38 pages)
Hope this helps you recover yourself out of the “snare of the devil”
Well so far you have not given any biblical quotes at all to back up your position of salvation by faith alone. Let me again show you what the bible says, you can accept them or reject them.
1 Peter 3:21 even now does baptism also save us ( not the putting away the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ?
Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:16 he who believes AND is baptized shall be saved.
John 3:5 unless one is born of WATER AND the Spirit, one CANNOT enter the kingdom of heaven
Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you were raised with Him through faith IN THE WORKING OF GOD, who raised Him from the dead.
Romans 6:3-4 Or do you not know that as many of us as have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Therefore we were BURIED WITH HIM THROUGH BAPTISM into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we should walk IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
I could go on but you will not accept these. Give me ONE, just ONE, that says we are saved by faith alone. You cannot and you know it. You know as well as I that there is no forgiveness, no remission of sins without repentance. Repentance is not faith, it is an act of faith but you will go right on saying “saved by faith alone”. The Devils biggest lie ever.
James 2:24 You see then how we are justified by works, and not by faith only (the word of God, reject it at your own peril)
Your tootin pretty loud yourself!! I can hear you all the way over here!!!
Now be nice.
You do not have to worry about Brother Lyon anymore. The true test of who is lying will be determined on judgment day. We all will be judged by God and not by man. It has been my experience that those who toot their horn the loudest for their own self-gratification will be in for the biggest surprise at judgment.
That you are an idiot!
“I think you need to read the bible and accept “everything” it teaches.” That is your quote. And that is the problem that is hurling Church of Christ, Oneness Pentecostals, Roman Catholics and all water dogs into Hell. Remember it does not matter what the Bible teaches or means(because that is only a mans opinion) You will be judged by what it SAYS. YOU are your own final authority, when it should be God’s word. Yes you can quote me on that and this. It only matters what the Bible (AV1611 of course) SAYS and to whom it is SAYING it to. We are commanded to rightly divide the words of God (Bible). That is where heretics like you and old Mack LYING fail miserably. I pray you find the truth before the creek runs dry on Judgement Day!!!
I think you need to read the bible and accept “everything” it teaches. You say baptism is not for salvation yet EVERY translation says in 1st PETER 3:21 even now does baptism also SAVE us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh ( in other words not taking a bath, all baptism means is “immersion” everytime you go swimming or take a deep bath you are being baptized, this baptism is different, it is not washing filth off your body but rather) but an answer of a good conscience toward God. ( in other words it is obeying God ) the NIV says it SAVES you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
HERE IS THE CHURCH OF CHRIST’S BELIEF:
Even now does baptism also now save us, not the putting away the filth of the flesh but an answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Here is your teaching: even now does baptism also NOT save us.
Who is perverting the bible here?
HERE IS THE CHURCH OF CHRISTS BELIEF:
Mark 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shal be saved but he that believes not shall be damned.
Here is your belief: he who believes is saved and then baptized.
Who is twisting scripture?
HERE IS THE CHURCH OF CHRISTS BELIEF:
Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins and you shall RECIEVE the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Here is your belief: Repent each and everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit and then be baptized.
Who is twisting scripture?
I could go on and on because there are a lot more quotes about baptism than you are willing to believe. You have put salvation before baptism not the bible, you have twisted the scriptures not the church of Christ. Mack Lyons program is helping “others” to search for the Lord’s way. We know the Lord’s way and it is a way you refuse to accept.