Blind Squirrel Gets a Nut
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The English language changing a little can not be held out as an excuse to change verses that teach the virgin birth and blood atonement of Jesus Christ and that is just the tip of the ice burg. Allow me to recommend a book, IN AWE OF THY WORD by Gail Riplinger. Bro. Ray
But the English language has changed. 17th century English is different than 21st century English. I am not saying we need to add the word “twerk” to the Bible like they just did to the dictionary, but we need a Bible in today’s language.
Charles: Ok, no insults. They said it was necessary because it was necessary. It is necessary to have the Scripture in our language, but tell me to what advantage is it to have an average of more one more every six months since 1611? What have the newer translations added to what the AV1611 Bible already teaches. To what advantage is it to have harder reading versions? For the first new translation to receive a copyright it had to be substantially different form the AV1611. The next and the next had to be substantially different from the AV1611 and the other versions, and over 200 translations later we have a garbled mess that is not doctrinally correct aka NKJ, NIV, NASB and the list goes on and on and on. I have a Muslim relative that finds Christianity hard to grasp because of the multiple NEVER ENDING translation of the month! The translators were talking about a translation into a language and stopping when the language stopped evolving so much. Hope this helps. Bro. Ray May God Bless You. TRANSLATIONS WERE REFERRING TO TRANSLATIONS IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGES NOT THE CONFUSING MESS WE HAVE TODAY IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.
“Therefore as one complaineth, that always in the Senate of Rome, there was one or other that called for an interpreter: [Cicero 5::de finibus.] so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readiness. Translation it is that openeth the window, to let in the light; that breaketh the shell, that we may eat the kernel; that putteth aside the curtain, that we may look into the most Holy place; that removeth the cover of the well, that we may come by the water, even as Jacob rolled away the stone from the mouth of the well, by which means the flocks of Laban were watered [Gen 29:10]. Indeed without translation into the vulgar tongue, the unlearned are but like children at Jacob’s well (which is deep) [John 4:11] without a bucket or something to draw with; or as that person mentioned by Isaiah, to whom when a sealed book was delivered, with this motion, “Read this, I pray thee,” he was fain to make this answer, “I cannot, for it is sealed.” [Isa 29:11]” -Original preface to the 1611.
Question Ray: why did the translators of the KJV say that is was necessary to have “TRANSLATIONS” of Gods word and not one final translation? Why did they go on an on about how beautiful interpretations of Gods are? (Like windows, wells, etc.)
Childish insults do not suffice as answers by the way.
Adam: I have read the preface of the AV1611 and posted it on my blog. In addition I put some of the preface in bold letters (didn’t change the meaning) and in bold letters the translators said their work was one more EXACT TRANSLATION OF THE SCRIPTURES. Their reference to changes in words was because the English language was rapidly changing and evolving into what we can read and understand today, 5th and 6th grade English. Why do you trust Greek and Hebrew lexicons and dictionaries more than the translators. Have you or anyone you know seen the originals? Do you think Jesus or Paul or Peter or, or, or, had the original? God is able, and willing to keep his word through copying and translation. You are commanded to search the scriptures, you can’t do it in the originals, so why not a reformation Bible (AV1611) that changed the course of history for people speaking the universal language of English?
Examine yourself, Adam, are you afraid to allow the AV11 to be the FINAL AUTHORITY in your life, would you lose your job if you did? THINK ABOUT THAT.
Bro. Ray P.S. The AV1611 can correct that seminary education. Also I cannot speak Greek or Hebrew and I know the AV1611 adversaries can’t either.
Yes I am still Pre mil and Pre trib and dispensational. Most southern baptists I know are pre mil. Most all the liberals left when the CBF formed and the conservatives took the convention back over. No I can’t read Greek and Hebrew, but I would guess you might not can either. I would assume you probably believe that the KJV corrects the original. Yes I use books, but I still had to open them and dig. No I do not correct the word, I am an innerantist. I believe in an innerant original. I would encourage you to read again the original preface of the KJV. They actually tell you that it was not intended as a perfect translation. They also acknowledge the need for new translations as language changed. I choose to believe the translators. I guess we will agree to disagree.
Adam: I respect you also Adam, you have a right to be wrong. Should honor your dad. Let me test your integrity concerning the original languages. This is a test for everyone on this site to see and grade. In ten minutes or less without looking at a book of any kind, write back to me and list the alphabet of both the Greek and Hebrew languages, ancient Hebrew and Greek of course. Ready set GO!! As a Southern Baptists are you still pre-millennial? Dropping silent letters and changing the spelling of words and not interchanging f for s and v for u does not take away from the meaning of the 1611. But using the Westcott and Hort perverted text in all the new age Bibles does change the meaning of God’s words. Are you talking about Pensacola Christian College as PCC? If so that College was never AV1611 only, I have it in their own words. Need a copy? Being a Ruckmanite, (you forgot to capitalize Ruckman – childish disrespect?) is better than being ecumenical any day of the week and at the judgement seat of of Jesus Christ or White Throne Judgement. You say you have respect for the AV1611 but I would think you just use it to help yourself make a living, over paid of course.
Get back to me on the test. By the way did you correct God’s word today when you entered the pulpit? Bro. Ray
Actually I did not attend a liberal. I went to PCC and was raised IFB. However, I was never a ruckmanite. I am now Southern Baptist. My Dad is still an IFB preacher. Yes, we disagree on the KJV, but he respects me as a man to make my own choice. The point I was trying to make is that you guys holler 1611 when what you carry is probably a 1789 revision. I stopped being KJVO as a result of long personal study of the original languages. I don’t have a problem with the KJV. I still love it and study from it. However, I do not believe it to be the only correct one. Although, there are still translations that I think are poorly translated. I simply want to make people think for themselves and not take someone else’s word for it. The way most of you IFB boys explain things is just not scholarly.
Adam: I am not surprised that even you as a pastor need to be taught again or for the first time, concerning the words of God. Your question implies disrespect or ignorance, but I will answer anyway. English speaking Christians had the Bible in the following languages before the AV1611. pre-A.D.350 the Gothic Bible, pre-A.D.700 the Anglo-Saxon Bible, 1389 Wycliffe, 1526 – 1534 Tyndale, 1560-1599 Geneva Bible, 1568 Bishops Bible, 1611 AV1611. As for your other smart remarks about red letter and etc. you know that color of ink does not change meaning or a judges decree in our courts, same thing with the Bible. As for Scofield and Thompson they are commentaries. As for other countries the list is to large to address here, check out my post AV1611 From the Translators to the Readers for that information. As for you as the pastor of a Baptist church, I do not know your salary but you are grossly overpaid. I suggest that you forget most of what was taught you in whatever liberal seminary you went to, repent, ask God to forgive your evil heart of unbelief and read the Bible (AV1611 of course) Legitimate enough? Probably not, you will have a comeback that fits the mouth of an odious woman instead of a LEGITIMATE PASTOR. Bro. Ray
What does that passage have to do with 17th century English?
So what did Christians do for a Bible before 1611? Which KJV? Scofield, Thompson Chain? Red letter? That’s a 1789. You couldn’t read a 1611. What do people do for a Bible in foreign countries? Legitimate questions needing legitimate answers.
Ezekiel 14:1-9
I liked your joke about Savior being spelled with a “u” That is a very obsolete spelling in England. Here in the good ol’ USA, we have removed the useless “u” out of most words.
OK, yep, that more or less confirms it. You’re a troll. It explains so much. What a sad life you lead, intentionally trying to shove people away from the love of Jesus, all the while pretending to be one of his followers.
Do I hear another squirrel in the tree of unbelief? Yes, its Charles the reprobate.
You should be telling that to the reprobates over at stufffundieslike.com .
As Christians we are supposed to edify each other not tear each other down. This debate does not have a whole lot of comments that encourage other Christians. Think about what Jesus would say if he commented on this post. Personally I think Jesus Christ would be very disappointed with some of the derogatory comments on this post.
I came to join the fray, but noticed Jeremy and Tim have embarrassed Ray enough for one evening. Thanks for the enjoyable discussion guys!
If I say blue squirrel , did I mean blue squirrel or a squirrel that is blue? And then again, well then again is the squirrel blue or is it BLUE?
Tim, that’s what you sound like. Bro. Ray
If I say blue squirrel , did I mean blue squirrel or a squirrel that is blue? And then again, well then again is the squirrel blue or is it BLUE?
Tim, that’s what you sound like. Bro. Ray
I’m sorry???? Are you cheering for me to be homosexual?
Tim: Are you wanting to “come out”?
Is it a cage, or a world full of life and love opened up by the religious freedom we have in Christ? Apostasy would not confine one in a cage. Technically, it would open up to more broad beliefs. I have felt so much happier in my relationship with Christ since I have realized the world is not a bunch of rules we have to follow, rather morals that are general and people who are sinners just like I am. And regarding the question, “How would you feel if…?” I ask you how you would feel if you ever sat under the teaching of a deacon, pastor, etc. who was homosexual (unaware to you), but had not ‘come out’ yet because of social pressures?
Katie: Sodomy makes God sick. Read Romans chapter one and get back to me. What kind of liberal apostate church do you attend anyway. You probably think Rick Warren is a man of God. Bro. Ray
So you believe that, if someone has put their faith in Jesus for salvation, they cannot or will not sin? And if they do sin, they could not have been a Christian to begin with? And what makes “sodomy” worse than pride, lust, anger, or perhaps UNKINDNESS? Because that’s something you’ve been showing a lot of in your comments.And what about God’s commandment to love your neighbor as yourself? By the way, I do not need to convince you that I know Jesus Christ. I accepted Christ as my Savior at a young age, and I have assurance, from the King James Version Bible, no less, that my salvation cannot be lost through any sinful act of mine.
Katie: YES I BELIEVE IN SALVATION BY FAITH IN THE FINISED WORK OF JESUS CHRIST ON THE CROSS. But I also believe what Paul said, show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by works. Saved women do not continue as flaming lesbians and write books about the virtues of this abomination. Same for you, you cannot convince me that you know Jesus Christ and defend sodomite women in the same comment section. Those holy men of God were not sodomites. Have you thought seriously about the seriousness of the sodomite sin. Are you in favor of sodomy or not? Read what Paul said in Romans before you answer. Bro. Ray
Wow, see, this is what I mean by red herrings and childish name-calling. I am, in fact, heterosexual. And I can’t help but notice that you haven’t answered my question about salvation by FAITH ALONE. Also, “holy men of God” cannot possibly mean “perfect human beings,” because no such beings have ever existed, except for Jesus Christ, who was both God and man. Everyone has sinned, including all of the apostles, and King James, by the way.
So compassion only comes from the Bible, not other believers in the faith… I’m sorry you believe doctrine such as this.
Bluejay: Ah Ah Ah Holy men of God spake – Bible , Bible , Bible. Bro. Ray
Everyone he has used to translate the scriptures have been full of sin like you and me. Pride, to name a common one.
Tim: For compassion read the AV1611 Bible. Bro. Ray
I almost left out: and the complete lack of compassion for other people’s souls. I try to ask a serious question, looking for a serious answer, and all I get is “You should know the answer!” Above all I just felt a lack of any compassion at all regarding people’s souls. Sorry to have bothered you with religion.
Katie: The “FINAL AUTHORITY” AV1611 spells it Saviour. That settles it. Bro. Ray P.S. You didn’t comment about your being a lesb…never mind. Bro. Ray
So you believe that salvation has to do with our works, and not the finished work of Christ on the cross? And actually, Savior can be spelled either way; it’s the way the English language works. There are multiple ways to spell certain words. Like gray and grey, same word, but the second spelling is British. Color or colour, same difference. You just use silly “mistakes” in people’s posts to discredit them and distract from the fact that you don’t answer their real questions.
Tim: Oh boo-hoo! Bro. Ray
Katie: Again do you believe God used a flaming lesbian to translate the Scriptures? You spelled Saviour wrong, the word when applied to Jesus Christ is spelled with a “u”. Read Romans chapter one to answer your questions about queers in hell. Bro. Ray
And once again as I have seen many times on this site, a pointless answer that did not answer the comment in any way. I read these sites (and others) to try to get a larger worldview on spiritual matters, and this is exactly the behavior that is driving me away from any type of Christian fundamentalism. All of the non-answers, legalism, and tradition that make it impossible to have a productive conversation. I personally cannot take someone seriously who obviously has the reasoning capabilities of a four year-old.
So you believe that because someone is a lesbian, they are automatically going to hell? And it doesn’t matter whether they have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior? That goes against the Bible, even the AV 1611. Does the Bible not say that salvation depends on faith in Christ’s work on the cross, and NOTHING else? Not lifestyle or works, etc, just faith. That’s what your Bible teaches.
Tim: Get away from Darrell, someone might mistake you for a squirrel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, because I would like a response. I do not feel like a ‘blind squirrel’ as I am reading articles on that site. I would just like to know the basis for the derogatory name Darrell and myself are being called.
Vanessa West: REALLY? Have you done a verse by verse comparison of the AV1611 with your favorite version concerning the blood of Jesus, and the virgin birth of Jesus Christ? Yes all scripture is given by the inspiration of God, but do you really think He use a HELL bound lesbian on the NIV translation committee? Eternity hangs in the balance, some are spiteful of the gospel because of the many translations. Do a thorough comparison of other Bibles with the AV1611 and get back to me in a few weeks. Bro. Ray
Tim: Do you really have to ask? Bro. Ray
I honestly don’t understand how you can insist that only the AV 1611 version is the inspired written Word of God. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. What difference does it make which translation of the bible one chooses to read?
I personally read Stuff Fundies Like regularly. What is it about reading that site that automatically makes me a blind squirrel?
Glad to see you’ve embraced the battle against the evil squirrel-men of this age, Ray. Down with squirrels and their nuthouses!